Hibachi FAQ 2

From AWiki

Original links to Aficoman's CO FAQ on Google archive of ASH: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5

Contents


Newsgroups: alt.suicide.methods
From: afico...@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 06:11:07 -0800
Local: Wed, Nov 7 2007 4:11 pm
Subject: The Carbon Monoxide FAQ 
Carbon Monoxide FAQ (by Aficoman)


[edit] Introduction to Carbon Monoxide gas (CO)

Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, practically odorless, and tasteless gas (or liquid). It results from incomplete oxidation of carbon in combustion (incomplete combustion ,practically speaking).The gravity of the gas is 0.96716 (almost similar to the air we breathe); boiling point -190oC; solidification point -207oC; specific volume 13.8 cu. ft./lb. (70oF).Auto ignition temperature (liquid) 1128oF. Classed as an inorganic compound.

Source: "The Condensed Chemical Dictionary," 9th ed., revised by Gessner G. Hawley, Van Nostrand Reinhold Co., NY, 1977.

[edit] Sources of Carbon Monoxide

Unvented kerosene and gas space heaters; leaking chimneys and furnaces; back-drafting from furnaces, gas water heaters, wood stoves, and fireplaces; gas stoves; generators and other gasoline powered equipment; automobile exhaust from attached garages;Incomplete oxidation during combustion in gas ranges and unvented gas or kerosene heaters may cause high concentrations of CO in indoor air. Worn or poorly adjusted and maintained combustion devices (e.g., boilers, furnaces) can be significant sources, or if the flue is improperly sized, blocked, disconnected, or is leaking. Auto, truck, or bus exhaust from attached garages, nearby roads, or parking areas can also be a source.

[edit] How does Carbon Monoxide work as a lethal agent

Carbon monoxide (CO) enters the bloodstream through the lungs and attaches to hemoglobin (Hb), the body's oxygen carrier, forming carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) and thereby reducing oxygen (O2) delivery to the body's organs and tissues. High COHb concentrations are poisonous. Central nervous system (CNS) effects in individuals suffering acute CO poisoning cover a wide range, depending on severity of exposure: headache, dizziness, weakness, nausea, vomiting, disorientation, confusion, collapse,coma and death.

[edit] Explanation about CO production

Carbon monoxide gas is produced when fossil fuel burns incompletely because of insufficient oxygen. During incomplete combustion, the carbon and hydrogen combine to form carbon dioxide, water, heat, and deadly carbon monoxide.... Anything which disrupts the burning process or results in a shortage of oxygen can increase carbon monoxide production. "

[edit] Overview of methods based on CO

There are several different methods based on CO intoxication:

Burning charcoal grills within an enclosed area is known from Japanese suicide pacts and spread worldwide since then. It is also known as [Charcoal-burning suicide].

  • + Probably the most accessible method. Does not require any expensive equipment, hard to get chemicals or illegal components.
  • + Reliable and proven: The Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare reports that "group suicide through gas inhalation increased in 2003, with 3,538 people involved, up by 2,024 from 2002." [1]
  • - Some people find being in a hot, smoked area disgusting; risk of fire if done wrong

This method is described later in detail, because it is the easiest to implement and because it is (undeservedly) the least documented in the literature. Recently, vocalist Brad Delp from the "Boston" band exited using this method.


Producing CO by mixing formic and sulphuric acids is another method, advocated by Dr. Nitschke in his Peaceful Pill Handbook.

  • + Unlike burning coals, does not create smoke and has no risk of fire. The generator is a clean tabletop device.
  • - Requires access to rather uncommon chemicals (formic and sulphuric acids)
  • - Requires skills dealing with dangerous concentrated acids
  • - The method is rather untested (although people were successful using this method [2])

Please read the Peaceful Pill Handbook or check the "monoxidemachine" site if you are interested in this method.


Car exhaust method was often used in suicides until 80's,and was based on using the gas of one's exaust in the car ,for inhaling it. This method is mostly outdated, as modern car engines became much "greener" and produce far less of the environmentally harmful CO. As Geo Stone writes in Suicide and attempted suicide, "The reason is that car engines are required to get better gas mileage and produce fewer toxic emissions than in the recent past. A new, well-tuned engine may emit 0.06 percent carbon monoxide, compared to 6 to 9 percent from an engine of the 1960s, a hundredfold decrease. As a result, it takes longer to kill yourself by filling a garage with carbon monoxide from a tuned engine. It can be done, but is no longer either fast or certain."

  • + The method was easily available to everyone having a car
  • - Unlikely to work with a modern car equipped with a catalytic converter; you'd need an "old-timer" car from 60s.
  • - Risk of survival with brain damage if a car engine stops running (which indeed happened sometimes).

CO tank was used sometimes, connected to a mask.

  • + Reliable, no issues with gas concentration
  • - It's almost impossible for a private person to buy a CO cylinder. CO is a dangerous chemical and they won't sell it without the right documents.

[edit] Japanese grill method

The very first steps to take care of are as follows :

[edit] Picking the location

Best places are a car, van, or a small bathroom . Actually the Japanese in the 90's traditionally used a rented Van for commiting a group suicide ,using a charcoal stove which is similar to he method discussed here. For a car van or a small bathroom,three medium size grills with 3-4kg of coals in each should suffice.

Fators to consider :

Avoid locations which may harm neighabors.First of all CO is very poisonous and you would not like to kill others,so in any case put very prominent signs for people to be careful if they find you there later.

If you light a grill in a regular neighborhood your act may be suspected. When you pick your location with a car or a van ,apart from the warning signs ,make sure to be in a very isolated place as to not be rescued as well.

In your test run ,place your car/van in the prospective geographic place to make sure peole do not come there often.

[edit] Make a list of all the items to be collected

  • A CO detector with a digital display (see details below)
  • Three medium size grills (Hibatchi ones are preferred.make sure they have handles,they can contain 3-4 kg charcoal each.Prefer those with the halls for ventilation at the bottom)
  • 15-20 kg of charcoal (you would need some for a test run so make sure you have enough)
  • Order some benzodiazepines (300mg of long acting ones and 150mg of short acting one like Dormicum).
  • If your location would be in a car ,make sure to buy some heat resisting breaks to put under the grill,to avoid fire.
  • You might want to buy some bags of ice,to avoid the heat you might experience before falling into a deep sleep.

[edit] CO Detector -what to buy and why do I need it ?

The importance of CO detector is not to be overlooked if one would like to perfect his/her method.

Co detectors with a digital display are used to show the CO concentration levels in a confined space (a room/car).The digital display shows us how many ppm of CO [=parts per million=a common measure for gases]are there in the confined space.

As for the lethality, it goes by the ppm levels in the enclosed space :

  • 999ppm - death is expected within about 3 hours.
  • 2,000ppm -death is expected within about an hour
  • 12,999ppm -death is expected in about within about 3 minutes

Therefore you would like to purchase a detector which can AT LEAST show upto 2000ppm. Those whostop at 1000ppm are not good enough for a perfect attempt ,though thre is a trick to come aroud this problem too (see below).

Consider using the CO detector in your test run o course,in which you might want to place the detector in the space in which you plan to apply your attempt (room /car),in a way that you can either see the digital display of the detector from a window (of the car), or,alternatively, in a way that you can wire it to your PC,using a USB cable, to see the CO levels in the room (while you're outside),when the grills would be there in the test. (most detectors can be connected by a USB cable to a computer).

[edit] The test run and the use of your detector

The test run can provide you with good indications of how to seal the car/room and to test how well the CO is being kept there. In your test you would find the place to locate your car and can stay in the spot for some time to watch if it is really the right place for it.

During tests you can get a clue about the temperature and to decide on the amounts of ice you'll need as well ,and a clue about the timing needed to get rid of the smoke and how long would it take you to get the coals properly burnt. and of course - measuring with the CO detector.

The test run should mimic almost EXACTLY the actual attempt ,and is playing a major role in reharsing and making sure your attempt is a surefire.

The test run is applied in the location where the actual attempt should be.you would like to seal the enclosed space completely ,using a dact tape or any other reliable means.One of the purposes of the test is checking if you well sealed all the possible places through which the CO could leak (in a car - the vents for example).That would be monitored by the CO detector later,after you have already burnt the grills well and located them in the car/room,and went out to let the CO be built up inside the enclosed space.

[edit] igniting the grills

Now,you'd better light the 3 grills in three different batches.That is, you would need to ignite them ,in 10-15 minutes intervals one from another,so that if one of them for some reason goes down (extinguished) so the others will keep producing Carbon Monoxide in the enclosed space (as we mentioned,the same process should be done in your test run and in your actual attempt too,apart from your actual presence inside the enclosed car/room,when all the grills are there later.In your test you'll be outside ,measuring the Co levels).

The main issue is letting the charcoal in the grills first burn properly, outside of the enclosed space of course. Approx. 35-45 minutes for each grill should be enough.That is : you would light the first one,wait 10-15 minutes ,then light the second one,wait another 10 minutes and light the third one.After 45 minutes passed from the time you lighted the first one,this grill should be ready.If the charcoal are gray-white all around ,and they are merely smoldering embers,it's exactly the time to take the first grill into the enclosed space,since that's the state when the charcoal produce the maximum amount of CO (the CO detector should be already in the room/car, and be wired to your pc ,or to show you the PPM levels somehow). Put the grill there and close the doors and let it sit there a good hour.

In the meantime keep burning the two other grills untill the coals turn gray all around and all the smoke and black coating of the coals are all gone.Then ,you need to open the doors of the car/room, dump the grill which was inside and put the other two inside and close the doors.Some of the CO that has been built while the first grill was there might be lost while you open the doors ,but some would stay.

[edit] What would I expect in the test ? what would be considered as good results ?

In this test (while the two grills are inside the enclosed space) your CO detector would shows either stable/increasing levels of CO or unstable levels (for example ,after you put the 2 grills inside,if you have not sealed the car/room properly ,so the levels of the CO shown by the Detector,will not remain high after a while, since some of the CO would leak out).

If the Detector shows continuously increasing levels of CO (anyhow, NOT showing any decrease),it would be a good indicator that :

  • You've sealed the car/room properly,in a way which would suffice for your actual attempt.
  • The CO production is good enough and the burning process you applied for the coal in the grills was done properly (when the coals are burned thoroughly as explained above ,there should be very little smoke in the enclosed space,if at all,since the black coating of the coals ,which is responsible for the smoke should be burnt outside).

[edit] What if the test run fails ?

If the Detector does NOT show stabe levels or increasing levels for an hour or so,it might tell you that you made either one of the following mistakes:

  • You should seal the space better for leaks.(In that case ,you would need to schedule another new test run.It is recommended then to seal again from the beginning and check for all possible previously unsealed cracks).
  • The burning process of the coals was not done properly, and should be applied again in a new test run,to make sure you do it properly ,BEFORE your actual attempt.(if done properly ,this should not happen, since you can see when the coals are all almost white, and in a state of smoldering embers.But if you failed to turn them all around and make sure they are all "done" when burning them outside the car/rrom, then you might fail here,and also,you would then notice big amount of black smoke in the enclosed space,as opposed to the reduced smoke and heat ,if you had burnt them outside thoroughly).
  • There might be something wrong with the Detector,which may not show the right values ,however ,in the modern Detectors with the digital display it is very rare.
  • Another option of "failure" is when during your test run you need to stop it all since you're somehow interrupted due to people who pass by,as opposed to what you could predict before.(remember that a part of your test run is to explore your final location and to check how isolated this place really is).

If all the four options above are covered ,then you're on the right way,and the test run was a successful one and you can carry on.

[edit] If the test went well ,what's next ?

Then you know already the location and that you know how to seal the room/car/van perfectly. You also know the timing in which the grills should be lightened and the amount of needed coals and how to thoroughly burn them.

You would also know how much heat and smoke to expect in any stage and how much ice you would need for the minutes before you fall into a deep unconsciousness.

All you need now is to make sure you have strong sedatives with you,as to not experience the side effects of CO poisoning (see the section above, about CO poisoning).

The main and only difference bweteen your test run and your real attempt, is that in the real attempt you would enter the car/room ,with the two grills you put inside after you dump the first one.

Another thing is - when you do get in ,after sealing the doors with a duct tape behind you ,you need to ingest your benzodiazepines to put you into a deep unconsciousness.

[edit] Why Do I need the coals in a state of smoldering embers ?

That's the stage in which they produce significantly less smoke (since the black coating of the coals which accounts for the smoke, is largely gone) and less heat, but on the other hand the coals, in this stage, would produce the maximal Carbon Monoxide in that stage, which is preferable of course.

[edit] So how to produce it really when I light the charcoal ?

It's like a balancing act, depriving the coals of enough oxygen to get them to produce the carbon-monoxide, but not enough for them to stop burning completely. Some sources about the charcoal suicide method even advice partially covering the grill to even further reduce the oxygen supply.

Look to the successful suicide reports in Japan (if you're not aware of them, Google them). The technique there is to COMPLETELY SEAL THE CAR from the inside so that NOTHING seeps out. They also sometimes wrap the car in plastic.

[edit] Are there known fail case reports from ASM/ASH ? What went wrong there ?

In most cases where people reported to have failed the CO method it was always due to one of the following reasons or a combination of few :

  • They picked a room which was too big (you would't like to exceed 2X2X3 cubic meter by far)
  • They did not use enough coals.For a small bathroom ,following some meth calcs,10-12kg of charcoal are a must.
  • They aborted their attempt, as they started to experience some side effects which are typical to CO poisoning (diziness,blurred vision,headaches etc.),all of which would be avoided,had they used some sedatives as suggested by the authors of this page [see above].
  • Some of them started the whole process inside the enclosed space which is obviously a big mistake.They were overwhelmed with foams,black smoke,and they couldn't stop caughing.
  • For others ,their grill just went down after they lost their conscious.That's why we suggested the "Three grills method",to avoid such an occurance.

[edit] Q&As

[edit] How do you put the grill in your car without literally getting BBQ'd?

If you are using a vehicle instead of a room, a large steel bucket may fit better in your environment. Ideally, you would want to feet of clearance from the bucket to any other object within the vehicle to help prevent the risk of fire, which would be a most painful way to go.

You should punch holes around the bottom of the bucket to allow venting similar to the vents on the bottom of a grill (unless you use the grill itself). There should not be too many vents, and you may need to test with multiple buckets to determine the optimum venting. When placing the bucket into the vehicle, you should set it on top of a non-flammable object that does not conduct heat very well. A cinder- block or two may be ideal for this purpose, although you should perform testing. You should also have a large metal pan (such as a baking sheet or large pizza pan) underneath the cinderblock(s) to catch any burning coals that may fall through the vent holes.Large heat resistant gloves (barbecue gloves) ,are warmly recommended as well ,in order to carry it all into the car.

[edit] How long to wait ?

Q : How long should one wait after lighting the charcoal before putting it in the room or car? Do you just wait for the flame to die out and then stick it in the room? Is there a suggested amount of time?

A : It must be lighted of course OUTSIDE (balcony, backyard) and be allowed to turn down to glowing embers before you bring it into the room you will be using. Otherwise, there will be too much smoke and heat, and you will not be able to stay in the room because of the discomfort. The coals also produce the majority of Carbon Monoxide in the "smoldering" stage rather than in the flame-burning stage. If you follow those directions, there shouldn't be "choking/coughing".

But the way to MAKE SURE you won't experience any of that kind of discomfort is to ensure that you are deeply asleep/unconscious before the gas levels become lethal. Preferably you would combine sleeping pills, pain pills, and some alcohol. BUT you must make sure that you are not completely blotto before you have finished placing the burning embers safely in the room, and safely sealed the room up.

[edit] Q: How long should you let the grill sit in the car or room before entering it

Q: How long should you let the grill sit in the car or room before entering it? So to build up enough CO to kill you gently, quickly and certainly. I can't find a CO detector with a meter on it...at least not one I can get with my buying power - so a meter is out of the question.

The problem with measuring the number of parts per million is getting the equipment that will show the deadly levels. However those detectors are a must so that you WILL BE SURE of the Lethality here, not to wake up with a brain damage. You have to be sure the deadly level is btained BEFORE you begin to make your attempt. So, this requires sufficient charcoal (which has been dealt with in part 2,3 of the FAQ), sufficient grills and equipment that measures what has been produced.

This is, actually your first step, get the equipment that will measure concentration of CO to 12,800 parts per million.(and it 100% SHOUL'D NOT BE THAT EXPENSIVE if you buy the one which gets to 999ppm,while still considered to be VERY VIABLE ) This method (if your obtain 12,800 parts per million) will be deadly, and fairly quick (3 to 10 minutes from entering the confined space).

Here is a detector that you can acquire in the UK: [1] That link is for a plug in detector, and will only work in British outlets, however. The above [2],has a portable detector that has a digital reading, instead of just an alarm. i.e., it digitally tells you the ppm levels up to 999 ppm instead of going off at 100 or so.

[edit] Q: would a potable grill be adequate?

Yes, in effect any grill would do, just make sure you have sufficient amount of charcoals, I would say at least 20lbs of charcoals for a bathroom or a car, just to be on the safe side.

[edit] Q: What do I need to take care that nothing fails?

Make sure you have everything set before you start your attempt, that is:

  1. Get the CO meter with the digital display. Read more above.
  2. Make sure ALL of the possible places through which the CO can leak out (vents in a car, small cracks around the windows and such), are 100% airtight. Confirm it in your test runs, by measuring the CO levels stability when you place a grill in the sealed car or room .you should take care of this BEFORE you start your actual attempt of course! (even a small leak can compromise your attempt !!)
  1. Test your location:
    1. people you know, who may interfere with your attempt (if you do it in the car/garage and so)
    2. in some case reports, the neighbors reported the police, as they have been exposed to the fumes and smoke.
  1. Do not skip the test runs. It is highly valuable for a foolproof method. look back in the FAQ to see what you should test.
  1. Buy some sedatives (benzodiazepines - 1 gram, barbs- at least 3-4 grams, and maybe some alcohol) as I have recommended, since people

have been mainly reported to abort their CO poisoning attempts due to their being conscious when experiencing twitching, headaches and other nasty side effects.

  1. Do not underestimate the need for serious amount of coals.4 kg for each grill. 2 grill at least in a van, 3 for any small room. Not

calculating the amount of CO needed , was the second main reason for failed attempts.

[edit] References

  1. ↑ "Japan Suicide".
  2. ↑ http://www.rodoh.us/arts/arts1/prahlow/prahlow2005.pdf A Suicide Using a Homemade Carbon Monoxide “Death Machine” Joseph A. Prahlow, MD,* and Barrett W. Doyle Am J Forensic Med Pathol 2005;26: 177–180